The Price Isn't Right

Monday, 17 May 2010 07:17 | Written by Steve |

The basic QAGS mechanic is apparently way too simple for most gamers. Even though we tell them that the highest successful roll wins, everybody insists on thinking that the Number they're rolling against has something to do with how well their character succeeds. A few (mostly those familiar with 2nd Edition AD&D's non-weapon proficiency system) try to use the difference between their roll and Number as the success degree. While I can't help the AD&D people, I recently realized that the "Price Is Right" analogy that we often use to explain the mechanic might be part of the problem for others, since on the game show the idea is to get as close as you can to the price of the item (your Number) without going over. While this is technically true in QAGS as well (since anything over the Number is a failure), this makes it seem like the Number itself is import. It isn't, unless you're using the Lucky Break rules aned roll the Number exactly or fail and the Failure Degree is important.

I think I've come up with a slightly better analogy for the base QAGS mechanic: A silent auction. Let's say that Bianca and Sparky are both submitting silent bids to an auction for a lovely framed piece fo Jeffrey Johnson art. Bianca has $100 in her pocket while Sparky has $75. In this case, the amount of money each person has is like their Number: neither can successfully purchase the art if the final sale price is more than their available funds. If there's a minimum bid or reserve price, that's basically a Difficulty Number. Bids (rolls) that are below the minimum bid (DN) fail to win the auction. If Bianca bids $70 and Sparky bids $65, Bianca wins the print. It doesn't matter that Sparky was closer to his Number (total available cash). All that matters in the amount of money that was bid (ie, the value of the roll).

Does that make things any clearer?

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Discuss (6 posts)

Alvis

Re:The Price Isn't Right
Oct 21 2010 02:12:02

I'm still a little confused. I thought that if a player rolled a successful 17, that's better than if another player rolled a successful 8. Even if there's no difficulty number assigned, wouldn't the higher success be more amazing?

#71

Steve

Re:The Price Isn't Right
Oct 21 2010 14:50:36

If I understand your question, I think the thing to remember is that there are potentially two "success" components of a successful roll:

The first is the raw effect of the difference between the rolls, which typically has a measurable mechanical or in-game effect--the damage done by an attack, the distance gained in a race, etc. So if the 17 and 8 rolls were for combat, this effect would be 9 points of damage.

The second is the Success Degree, which is more of a narrative/style thing. For a resisted roll, it's the same calculation as the raw effect (the difference between the rolls). It's measured against set benchmarks, so for example a 5 gets the job done clumsily, a 15+ is very stylish, and Success Degrees between those aren't particularly noteworthy (there's a table in the "Doing Stuff" chapter of the Q2E book with the exact numbers--I don't have it in front of me right now). Since for resisted rolls the raw effect usually suggests the narrative effect (if you do enough damage to kill someone in one blow, it's going to be an impressive attack), the Success Degree doesn't usually matter that much for resisted rolls.

Does that help, or did I misunderstand the question?

#72

Alvis

Re:The Price Isn't Right
Oct 21 2010 15:42:16

I understand calculating damage-- I guess I'm asking mostly about unopposed rolls. For example, lets say two characters are jumping a wall. The first succeeds with a roll of 5. The second succeeds with a roll of 15. For narrative purposes, is there a difference? Both get over, but the 15 vaults like an Olympian?

Or does the wall have to get a difficulty number, like "it's pretty tall, so it would be an impressive feat-- you need a 10 or better". In which case the 15 succeeds and the 5 does a face-plant. I think that's what you're describing. Part of my confusion here is that you could roll a successful Body check and not beat the Difficulty, and so your successful roll is a failed attempt to jump the wall. Am I getting that right?

#73

Steve

Re:The Price Isn't Right
Oct 21 2010 16:09:20

Exactly. The character who rolled a 5 to get over the wall would just barely make it or maybe stumble a bit on the landing. The character who rolled a 15 would clear the wall, make a perfect landing, and look good doing it.

It's up to the GM whether or not an action requires a DN. For the jumping* the wall example, I'd probably use the following DNs based on the height of the wall:

Waist-high or less: No DN

Waist-high to Jumper's height: DN 5

Taller than jumper, but top of wall within reach: DN 10

Taller than that, but still conceivable jumpable: DN 15

In this case, you'd subtract the DN from the roll to get the Success Degree. So a character with a Body of 15 trying to jump a 5' wall (DN 5) is at best going to have an average Success Degree (10). A character with a Body of 9 or less can't jump that high a wall without spending Yum Yums, since there's no way he could beat the DN.

*In this example, I'm using "jump" to mean a quick trip over the wall (possibly a "grab and swing over" type move, for a taller wall) rather than a hurdle-style jump.

#74

Alvis

Re:The Price Isn't Right
Oct 21 2010 18:21:39

Very good, thanks! You anticipated my next point, which was going to be "So, there's feats that people simply can't accomplish since their appropriate numbers aren't high enough to possibly succeed (without YYs)".

#75

Steve

Re:The Price Isn't Right
Oct 21 2010 18:41:54

Also, you might want to check out the Hex Forums. There's a thread over there where we whipped the ideas from this article into shape a little more.

#76

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The Price Isn't Right